OPRAH: When I was reading this I was thinking about, who are the people I need to clean up things with? To be in that space of cleaning up. And to be able to be in the position to say, what did I do to hurt you? How did I hurt you? What could I have done better? You all did all of that. ELIZABETH: Yes, we did. OPRAH: Yeah. ELIZABETH: And we did it because, as I said, we wanted to teach our cells to do the same thing when they got into her body. You know, like don’t attack. Don’t reject. So we went through that, how did I hurt you? How did I hurt you? Will you forgive me? And — OPRAH: Wow, isn’t that — that is so powerful. And as you say that, I think about all the people who are listening to us right now who have been hurt or hurt other people and how simple it would be just to — ELIZABETH: It is. It’s so simple. OPRAH: — enter the space of peace with that by saying, how did I hurt you? ELIZABETH: How did I hurt you? Tell me. And then to listen. Then to listen. It’s very hard not to get defensive. OPRAH: Yeah, not to get defensive. ELIZABETH: And this is why having a therapist — we only met with him twice. He taught us how to do it on our own. We then spent months. OPRAH: How to really listen and not start with your, I didn’t mean that and I can’t believe you felt that. ELIZABETH: That’s right. Really his only job the whole time was, like, wait a minute. Let her finish. And that’s — so it’s simple. But it’s not easy. And sometimes you need help. OPRAH: Mm-hmm. ELIZABETH: And not everyone is safe to do it with. This is an important point. OPRAH: Yes. Yeah. ELIZABETH: Yeah. OPRAH: That’s not just important. That’s essential. You have to be in agreement to do it. ELIZABETH: You do. OPRAH: You can’t do it with somebody who is still caring — who still wants to hold onto the anger. ELIZABETH: That’s right. And I can assure you, it doesn’t work. Because I have tried. OPRAH: (Laughter.) ELIZABETH: Over and over sometimes with the same person. OPRAH: Really. ELIZABETH: Yes. You know, I came out of the experience, like, okay, I’m gonna clean it up. OPRAH: Yeah. ELIZABETH: But there are some people who it will threaten, there’s some people who really don’t want to go there and who are so wounded that they just still feel they have to wound other people. You know, Maya Angelou has a wonderful line. Be careful when a naked man offers you a shirt. OPRAH: Yeah. ELIZABETH: And she said that after she said something, like, I don’t trust people who say, I love you, when they don’t love them self. So to me, that’s what you look for is this person same safe for me to be vulnerable with?